Re the brouhaha with activitypub and atproto.
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@davew Dave, I feel really stupid for asking, but could you share a link or more details about this "brouhaha"? @thisismissem talked about some recent heated discussions in her letter, too. I feel like I'm missing out on some drama.
This is where I saw it --
general/statements/2025-09-05-activitypub-and-atproto-discourse.md at master · swicg/general
General issue tracker for the group. Contribute to swicg/general development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
Apparently the statement there was taken down and put somewhere else.
Seems there was a conference about it, and then an extensive discussion.
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This is where I saw it --
general/statements/2025-09-05-activitypub-and-atproto-discourse.md at master · swicg/general
General issue tracker for the group. Contribute to swicg/general development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
Apparently the statement there was taken down and put somewhere else.
Seems there was a conference about it, and then an extensive discussion.
So, the brouhaha you're talking about is about Emelia's letter?
The letter starts like this:
"Recently there has been a lot of discourse about ActivityPub and AT Protocol which has been quite dividing and heated."
I thought you were talking about that.
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@davew Dave, I feel really stupid for asking, but could you share a link or more details about this "brouhaha"? @thisismissem talked about some recent heated discussions in her letter, too. I feel like I'm missing out on some drama.
btw as long as we're on the subject of how people treat each other, i'd like you all to pay attention to the work i do.
i'm 100% sure that if and when you guys seriously want to interop, you're going to use RSS, or something reinvented just for the sake of reinventing.
Are you planning on listening to me, even then?
it's really arrogant to assume you're going to replace RSS, i actually saw a spec floating around that almost literally said that's what you're doing.
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btw as long as we're on the subject of how people treat each other, i'd like you all to pay attention to the work i do.
i'm 100% sure that if and when you guys seriously want to interop, you're going to use RSS, or something reinvented just for the sake of reinventing.
Are you planning on listening to me, even then?
it's really arrogant to assume you're going to replace RSS, i actually saw a spec floating around that almost literally said that's what you're doing.
also saw a post from paul frazee about a year ago saying they thought about using HTTP and RSS but decided instead to reinvent the whole stack.
the process is so obvious. start with really good RSS support in and out and then start adding features after living with it for a year or so.
we could stop talking about interop and start using it.
i don't think any of you really want interop. you could have it very very very quickly.
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So, the brouhaha you're talking about is about Emelia's letter?
The letter starts like this:
"Recently there has been a lot of discourse about ActivityPub and AT Protocol which has been quite dividing and heated."
I thought you were talking about that.
i had some comments here i deleted.
things are changing really fast at least from my point of view.
we'll catch up in october at least.
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i had some comments here i deleted.
things are changing really fast at least from my point of view.
we'll catch up in october at least.
@davew OK, sounds good.
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also saw a post from paul frazee about a year ago saying they thought about using HTTP and RSS but decided instead to reinvent the whole stack.
the process is so obvious. start with really good RSS support in and out and then start adding features after living with it for a year or so.
we could stop talking about interop and start using it.
i don't think any of you really want interop. you could have it very very very quickly.
@davew
I completely and utterly agree, Dave. It SURE WOULD make things simpler to just CONSUME MY BLOG'S RSS, that I ALREADY MAKE with my site generators, then have to worry about implementing all these endpoints and a dynamic inbox. The current best practice to integrate your website with the Fediverse is just converting your RSS to AP notes for your outbox:
A guide to implement ActivityPub in a static site (or any website) - Part 2
In Part 2, we will delve into the design of my implementation. If you want to read about why you should bring your site to the Fediverse, check out Part 1. You can also navigate the other parts of this series here. So, you’ve decided to bring your blog to the social web, the Fediverse. That’s cool! This guide might be just what you need. And if you’ve got this or any other method working, shoot me a message on the social web, and I’ll gladly follow. But first, a word of caution: if you’re considering adding ActivityPub to your static site (or any site), I strongly suggest you look for existing implementations that could make your life easier:
(maho.dev)
The only sticking point left is how to make the inbox part easier for people so they can get "pingbacks"?
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@davew
I completely and utterly agree, Dave. It SURE WOULD make things simpler to just CONSUME MY BLOG'S RSS, that I ALREADY MAKE with my site generators, then have to worry about implementing all these endpoints and a dynamic inbox. The current best practice to integrate your website with the Fediverse is just converting your RSS to AP notes for your outbox:
A guide to implement ActivityPub in a static site (or any website) - Part 2
In Part 2, we will delve into the design of my implementation. If you want to read about why you should bring your site to the Fediverse, check out Part 1. You can also navigate the other parts of this series here. So, you’ve decided to bring your blog to the social web, the Fediverse. That’s cool! This guide might be just what you need. And if you’ve got this or any other method working, shoot me a message on the social web, and I’ll gladly follow. But first, a word of caution: if you’re considering adding ActivityPub to your static site (or any site), I strongly suggest you look for existing implementations that could make your life easier:
(maho.dev)
The only sticking point left is how to make the inbox part easier for people so they can get "pingbacks"?
THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.
to get rid of the difference so we really can write in our home and have it go where ever we want.
everyone wants this.
we have pingbacks in RSS and they work, and wordpress supports them.
it's the obvious way to go.
masto and bluesky have to hook up to our network, not vice versa.
Think Different about WordPress
Dave Winer, OG blogger, podcaster, developed first apps in many categories. Old enough to know better. It's even worse than it appears.
Scripting News (scripting.com)
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also saw a post from paul frazee about a year ago saying they thought about using HTTP and RSS but decided instead to reinvent the whole stack.
the process is so obvious. start with really good RSS support in and out and then start adding features after living with it for a year or so.
we could stop talking about interop and start using it.
i don't think any of you really want interop. you could have it very very very quickly.
@davew Dave, we *did* start with RSS and HTTP. It evolved over the years, becoming Activity Streams Atom, then Activity Streams JSON and finally Activity Streams 2.0. If you look closely at the AP protocol, it's just feeds enhanced with extra fields for social data with a push mechanism, like PubSubHubbub or RSSCloud.
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@davew Dave, we *did* start with RSS and HTTP. It evolved over the years, becoming Activity Streams Atom, then Activity Streams JSON and finally Activity Streams 2.0. If you look closely at the AP protocol, it's just feeds enhanced with extra fields for social data with a push mechanism, like PubSubHubbub or RSSCloud.
@davew I don't know who you mean by "any of you", but I can assure you that I'm really glad we have interoperability with so many different platforms. I love Bridgy Fed, so I can follow my friends and family who are on Bluesky. We are interconnected.
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@davew I don't know who you mean by "any of you", but I can assure you that I'm really glad we have interoperability with so many different platforms. I love Bridgy Fed, so I can follow my friends and family who are on Bluesky. We are interconnected.
@davew I can't speak for Paul Frazee, but I think he and the team at Bluesky are good folks who are trying their best to help people connect.
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THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.
to get rid of the difference so we really can write in our home and have it go where ever we want.
everyone wants this.
we have pingbacks in RSS and they work, and wordpress supports them.
it's the obvious way to go.
masto and bluesky have to hook up to our network, not vice versa.
Think Different about WordPress
Dave Winer, OG blogger, podcaster, developed first apps in many categories. Old enough to know better. It's even worse than it appears.
Scripting News (scripting.com)
@davew @suzannealdrich There are a few good bridges for RSS in the Fediverse. If your site supports Webmentions, I know that Bridgy Fed provides two-way integration.
Bridgy Fed
Bridgy Fed is a bridge between decentralized social networks like the fediverse, Bluesky, and web sites and blogs.
(fed.brid.gy)
I'm not sure about pingbacks, though! @snarfed.org ?
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@davew
I completely and utterly agree, Dave. It SURE WOULD make things simpler to just CONSUME MY BLOG'S RSS, that I ALREADY MAKE with my site generators, then have to worry about implementing all these endpoints and a dynamic inbox. The current best practice to integrate your website with the Fediverse is just converting your RSS to AP notes for your outbox:
A guide to implement ActivityPub in a static site (or any website) - Part 2
In Part 2, we will delve into the design of my implementation. If you want to read about why you should bring your site to the Fediverse, check out Part 1. You can also navigate the other parts of this series here. So, you’ve decided to bring your blog to the social web, the Fediverse. That’s cool! This guide might be just what you need. And if you’ve got this or any other method working, shoot me a message on the social web, and I’ll gladly follow. But first, a word of caution: if you’re considering adding ActivityPub to your static site (or any site), I strongly suggest you look for existing implementations that could make your life easier:
(maho.dev)
The only sticking point left is how to make the inbox part easier for people so they can get "pingbacks"?
i use automattic's bridge to activitypub, so i don't have to worry about the innards.
but i like the way the web works better.
that's what i'm going to stick with.
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i use automattic's bridge to activitypub, so i don't have to worry about the innards.
but i like the way the web works better.
that's what i'm going to stick with.
@davew @suzannealdrich you publish where you want to publish, Dave. We'll find a way to connect to you. That's the whole point.
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@davew @suzannealdrich you publish where you want to publish, Dave. We'll find a way to connect to you. That's the whole point.
I have the answer to that good question.
https://feedland.social/opml?screenname=davewiner&catname=daveverse
That’s the collection of feeds that reps my web writing.
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I have the answer to that good question.
https://feedland.social/opml?screenname=davewiner&catname=daveverse
That’s the collection of feeds that reps my web writing.
@davew @suzannealdrich awesome!
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@davew @suzannealdrich awesome!
that's a dynamic list, feeds will be added and removed. the idea is to get all of my writing everywhere in one place. that's basically what everyone wants. and the more places it's available the better.
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THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.
to get rid of the difference so we really can write in our home and have it go where ever we want.
everyone wants this.
we have pingbacks in RSS and they work, and wordpress supports them.
it's the obvious way to go.
masto and bluesky have to hook up to our network, not vice versa.
Think Different about WordPress
Dave Winer, OG blogger, podcaster, developed first apps in many categories. Old enough to know better. It's even worse than it appears.
Scripting News (scripting.com)
also *millions* of ActivityPub and Atproto (and others...) users want to have every content, and they think you should really hook to their network, not vice versa.
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also *millions* of ActivityPub and Atproto (and others...) users want to have every content, and they think you should really hook to their network, not vice versa.
They may want it, but honestly no one cares what they want.
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@davew @suzannealdrich you publish where you want to publish, Dave. We'll find a way to connect to you. That's the whole point.
I published a screen shot of your post on my blog.
Scripting News: Monday, September 8, 2025
Dave Winer, OG blogger, podcaster, developed first apps in many categories. Old enough to know better. It's even worse than it appears.
Scripting News (scripting.com)
Like I said in the post, everything else is baloney. Put that at the top of every spec you write, so people know not to drift into bullshit-land.
