With #HolosDiscover we checked multiple criteria before indexing: "indexable" enabled, account not locked, no #nobot or #noindex in bio, not in opted-out list, only public posts.
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With #HolosDiscover we checked multiple criteria before indexing: "indexable" enabled, account not locked, no #nobot or #noindex in bio, not in opted-out list, only public posts. Every deletion, edit or block was processed instantly via #ActivityPub.
Google uses that same "indexable" flag but ignores everything else, keeps deleted content cached for weeks.
We shut it down after pushback. Was that the right call? Don't hesitate to share, this concerns the whole Fediverse.If people unknowingly/unwittingly being indexable is a problem, it is not solved by good actors not indexing people who are already flagged as indexable.
A well-intentioned service highlighting the situation would lead to more awareness, perhaps changes to the default.
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With #HolosDiscover we checked multiple criteria before indexing: "indexable" enabled, account not locked, no #nobot or #noindex in bio, not in opted-out list, only public posts. Every deletion, edit or block was processed instantly via #ActivityPub.
Google uses that same "indexable" flag but ignores everything else, keeps deleted content cached for weeks.
We shut it down after pushback. Was that the right call? Don't hesitate to share, this concerns the whole Fediverse. -
@lexinova
The debate goes beyond that. The real question is why developers chose to enable "indexable" by default when creating an account. A default opt-in is effectively an opt-out. That's where the conversation should start. -
With #HolosDiscover we checked multiple criteria before indexing: "indexable" enabled, account not locked, no #nobot or #noindex in bio, not in opted-out list, only public posts. Every deletion, edit or block was processed instantly via #ActivityPub.
Google uses that same "indexable" flag but ignores everything else, keeps deleted content cached for weeks.
We shut it down after pushback. Was that the right call? Don't hesitate to share, this concerns the whole Fediverse.@apps I see no problem with this approach
generally opt-in is better than opt-out, so if there's a way to make it opt-in even for people on servers that allow indexing by default that would probably decrease the backlash, but like... If we don't want our posts indexed, we can turn indexing off and it seems y'all were respecting that so I don't mind -
With #HolosDiscover we checked multiple criteria before indexing: "indexable" enabled, account not locked, no #nobot or #noindex in bio, not in opted-out list, only public posts. Every deletion, edit or block was processed instantly via #ActivityPub.
Google uses that same "indexable" flag but ignores everything else, keeps deleted content cached for weeks.
We shut it down after pushback. Was that the right call? Don't hesitate to share, this concerns the whole Fediverse.We were caught off guard by the reactions and acted quickly. But we want to give the community a voice. We'll follow the result of this poll: if it should have stayed up, we'll reopen the source code and bring the service back.
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With #HolosDiscover we checked multiple criteria before indexing: "indexable" enabled, account not locked, no #nobot or #noindex in bio, not in opted-out list, only public posts. Every deletion, edit or block was processed instantly via #ActivityPub.
Google uses that same "indexable" flag but ignores everything else, keeps deleted content cached for weeks.
We shut it down after pushback. Was that the right call? Don't hesitate to share, this concerns the whole Fediverse.@apps if an account is marked as indexable, just index it. If the default is wrong, that's the instance admin fault, nit yours.
If Google can index it you can too.
If people are unhappy with the setting of their profile, they can change it or blame the software or the admin and not people of good faith like you.
Public toots are talking to the world in a megaphone by design, expecting privacy is absurd
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@lexinova
The debate goes beyond that. The real question is why developers chose to enable "indexable" by default when creating an account. A default opt-in is effectively an opt-out. That's where the conversation should start.@apps this 100℅ the wrong people in being blamed here
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@apps if an account is marked as indexable, just index it. If the default is wrong, that's the instance admin fault, nit yours.
If Google can index it you can too.
If people are unhappy with the setting of their profile, they can change it or blame the software or the admin and not people of good faith like you.
Public toots are talking to the world in a megaphone by design, expecting privacy is absurd
@lutindiscret
We panicked quickly because things escalated beyond what we expected. But we still believe our approach was far more respectful than what's already happening: the same data is being exploited by others without users even knowing. At worst, we raised awareness. -
With #HolosDiscover we checked multiple criteria before indexing: "indexable" enabled, account not locked, no #nobot or #noindex in bio, not in opted-out list, only public posts. Every deletion, edit or block was processed instantly via #ActivityPub.
Google uses that same "indexable" flag but ignores everything else, keeps deleted content cached for weeks.
We shut it down after pushback. Was that the right call? Don't hesitate to share, this concerns the whole Fediverse.@apps Tough one: I feel like you did set it up respectfully, so it should have stayed up. BUT taking it down when people voice concerns and objected was also the right thing to do, both morally and for the reputation of the Holos project.
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We were caught off guard by the reactions and acted quickly. But we want to give the community a voice. We'll follow the result of this poll: if it should have stayed up, we'll reopen the source code and bring the service back.
@apps maybe make a post for the most used (mastodon), on witch settings change for people that do not want to allow this.
As they may have missed this or misunderstood what the switch did
And since one of the two is recommemded, it may make them allow thing they actually don't want
some may misunderstand both settings:
- Include public posts in search results
- Feature profile and posts in discovery algorithms -
We were caught off guard by the reactions and acted quickly. But we want to give the community a voice. We'll follow the result of this poll: if it should have stayed up, we'll reopen the source code and bring the service back.
@apps Fediverse search engines are a contentious subject with a bad history, so I undestand you shutting it down.
While I'm fine with it, many people are very against things like that.
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With #HolosDiscover we checked multiple criteria before indexing: "indexable" enabled, account not locked, no #nobot or #noindex in bio, not in opted-out list, only public posts. Every deletion, edit or block was processed instantly via #ActivityPub.
Google uses that same "indexable" flag but ignores everything else, keeps deleted content cached for weeks.
We shut it down after pushback. Was that the right call? Don't hesitate to share, this concerns the whole Fediverse.@apps You did the right thing. You followed every consent option - both positive ("indexable" enabled, public posts) and negative (honoring bio tags, honoring locked accounts, honoring an opt-out signal).
There's not much, if anything, more you could realistically have done for what is to my understanding a fediverse search engine. -
With #HolosDiscover we checked multiple criteria before indexing: "indexable" enabled, account not locked, no #nobot or #noindex in bio, not in opted-out list, only public posts. Every deletion, edit or block was processed instantly via #ActivityPub.
Google uses that same "indexable" flag but ignores everything else, keeps deleted content cached for weeks.
We shut it down after pushback. Was that the right call? Don't hesitate to share, this concerns the whole Fediverse.@apps@toot.fedilab.app accidentally voted wrong. I think it should stay. Search on small instances suck.
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With #HolosDiscover we checked multiple criteria before indexing: "indexable" enabled, account not locked, no #nobot or #noindex in bio, not in opted-out list, only public posts. Every deletion, edit or block was processed instantly via #ActivityPub.
Google uses that same "indexable" flag but ignores everything else, keeps deleted content cached for weeks.
We shut it down after pushback. Was that the right call? Don't hesitate to share, this concerns the whole Fediverse.@apps the things that concerned me at the time were, in the initial announcement, 'we follow every signal' but only in this post did we know what signals you were following; and language of 'people may have misunderstood the defaults' which unfortunately rhymes with what less conscientious organisations say to justify hoovering all the things
if i had known the list of things you were looking at, i would have simply checked them and slept well. i didn't, so i blocked the bot, which now proves to have been unnecessary
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@apps maybe make a post for the most used (mastodon), on witch settings change for people that do not want to allow this.
As they may have missed this or misunderstood what the switch did
And since one of the two is recommemded, it may make them allow thing they actually don't want
some may misunderstand both settings:
- Include public posts in search results
- Feature profile and posts in discovery algorithms@lexinova
We can't change how Mastodon presents those settings, but we had a page explaining how the service works and how to opt out per platform. We'll communicate even more clearly if the service comes back.Worth noting that this opt-in by default setting also allows Google to index fediverse profiles, except they don't check for consent at all. This is a much bigger issue that goes way beyond our project, which actually tries to do things the right way.
