I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
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@liaizon we have always been able to do that. We are just strangled by mastodon dominance and what it accepts
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@liaizon@wake.st I think that development is good for both. In my mind the fediverse will never be a replacement for mainstream social media, but a strong counter-culture presence. On the other hand, I feel atmosphere does have aspirations to replace social media (along with a lot of its harms).
If the outcome is Fedi as space B + Atmosphere as mainstream social media instead of Fedi as space B + Twitter/Instagram/etc as mainstream media, I think we've had a win. -
@liaizon If my understanding of things is correct, this seems like the kind of thing that could be accomplished in the fediverse using ActivityPub C2S. Which of course depends on C2S actually getting some use... but a more generic ActivityPub server with varying C2S frontends could get us there, I think
@jfred there are lots of paths that could help, this being one of them, but some of those paths would actually need a combined effort and be widely promoted so that the ecosystem actually starts adopting them and that takes quite alot of time
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Shout out to WAFRN (@admin) and @anewsocial for taking the uncomfortable position of straddling the space inbetween protocols. I think this is truly the strategy that is going to be needed if we want to "win" the push towards an open social web for the whole internet.
@liaizon ohh wafrn looks very cool
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@liaizon ohh wafrn looks very cool
@fivexhotel try it out. They already have an Android app too that's very good
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I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.
*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto
@liaizon i think one factor the ap ecosystem could do a lot better at is finding nodes for ap devs to aggregate around. part of atproto ecosystem dev speed is technical, but other important part is how atproto has a much more legible dev ecosystem that constantly interacts with each other. ap dev ecosystem is much more fragmented, with very little interaction between the devs
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@liaizon i think one factor the ap ecosystem could do a lot better at is finding nodes for ap devs to aggregate around. part of atproto ecosystem dev speed is technical, but other important part is how atproto has a much more legible dev ecosystem that constantly interacts with each other. ap dev ecosystem is much more fragmented, with very little interaction between the devs
@liaizon on an abstracted level is ap well suited for building networked communities while atproto is great at global distribution. in that context its painful that the atproto network has run a lap around ap when it comes to dev ecosystem network
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@liaizon on an abstracted level is ap well suited for building networked communities while atproto is great at global distribution. in that context its painful that the atproto network has run a lap around ap when it comes to dev ecosystem network
@laurenshof I think the age of the developers is not to be undervalued here, I feel like there are a lot more young ATP devs then on fedi
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I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.
*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto
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I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.
*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto
@liaizon Seems to me that development on AT sped up *at the expense of* development on AP.
That is to say, a lot of the people who've gone all-in on AT were building here before, but have pretty much abandoned AP development. And it's worth examining why AT development was so much more appealing for those folks.
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@liaizon Seems to me that development on AT sped up *at the expense of* development on AP.
That is to say, a lot of the people who've gone all-in on AT were building here before, but have pretty much abandoned AP development. And it's worth examining why AT development was so much more appealing for those folks.
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I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.
*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto
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@liaizon Yep, said pretty much the same thing the other day.
To me, the one key feature we need is the ability to disable replies, and maybe also control who can reply, those are top 1 and 10 requests on Mastodon's GitHub, and both have been open for several years.
The team's response: it's too hard. Which, fair enough. But putting any effort into UX/UI polishing, as needed as that is, will be wasted as so many people already left because of the constant harassment and gatekeeping.
I also pointed out that by the time Bluesky's VC money runs out, there might already be enough independent communities running the full ATProto stack, so people will just be able to migrate without needing to ever look at the fediverse again.
@stefan @liaizon things that may be in the way of that are:
1. fully independent communities don't seem to come cheap with ATproto
2. there's almost no effort to get people to anything else besides the corporate servers so the alternate infrastructure is unlikely to be at a scale that would support any significant migrations at that point
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@liaizon Yep, said pretty much the same thing the other day.
To me, the one key feature we need is the ability to disable replies, and maybe also control who can reply, those are top 1 and 10 requests on Mastodon's GitHub, and both have been open for several years.
The team's response: it's too hard. Which, fair enough. But putting any effort into UX/UI polishing, as needed as that is, will be wasted as so many people already left because of the constant harassment and gatekeeping.
I also pointed out that by the time Bluesky's VC money runs out, there might already be enough independent communities running the full ATProto stack, so people will just be able to migrate without needing to ever look at the fediverse again.
@stefan @liaizon that said I wish Mastodon tried to work a bit more like an project that puts the open source development process first, seems like the team is pretty secretive about how and what they work on except for the very high level overview. I doubt it is a very good recipe for attracting outside devs.
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@liaizon Seems to me that development on AT sped up *at the expense of* development on AP.
That is to say, a lot of the people who've gone all-in on AT were building here before, but have pretty much abandoned AP development. And it's worth examining why AT development was so much more appealing for those folks.
I've been to some of the Bluesky / ATmosphere conferences.
You are correct that there are former AP people over there (at AT) now.
I talked to a number of them. This (at the following URL) is a common reason I heard for why they switched from AP to AT:
@reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman: (@reiver@mastodon.social)
One person saying — builders have mostly left Mastodon (and gone to Bluesky), because when developers try to build on Mastodon, they get yelled at, and maybe even receive death threats. #ATmosphereConf
Mastodon (mastodon.social)
(I am quoting / paraphrasing someone who switched AP to AT. But, I heard others say similar, too.)
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I've been to some of the Bluesky / ATmosphere conferences.
You are correct that there are former AP people over there (at AT) now.
I talked to a number of them. This (at the following URL) is a common reason I heard for why they switched from AP to AT:
@reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman: (@reiver@mastodon.social)
One person saying — builders have mostly left Mastodon (and gone to Bluesky), because when developers try to build on Mastodon, they get yelled at, and maybe even receive death threats. #ATmosphereConf
Mastodon (mastodon.social)
(I am quoting / paraphrasing someone who switched AP to AT. But, I heard others say similar, too.)
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