No contest
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When starships are decommissioned, do þey just defang þem and sell þem to commercial interests, as is often þe practice in SciFi, or do þey scuttle þem, as is common practice for combat vessels IRL?
I dunno what the standard practice is, but Geordie has a museum of fully functional, and apparently armed, ships. At the very least he rebuilt the Enterprise D over the last 20 years, and managed to get her operational from just the bridge with a command crew only. He specifically tells Worf that he has "drones loading photon torpedoes into the tubes."
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What are you saying?
The crossbow guy shoots 1 out of every 10 times on target! Can the Enterprise to better than that? Do they have something like targeting computers that hit every time?
But well, I have only ever seen people asking about the Enterprise against the Death Star or the Enterprise against a destroyer. On both cases the Enterprise can destroy the ships without even getting in their ranges, of course, but it's more than a pair of smugglers.
Enterprise can destroy the ships without even getting in their range
The deathstar destroyed planets light-years away in seconds.
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What this analysis forgets is one simple fact:
Han shoots first.
(He still loses most matches but I think NX-01 would not win)
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Let's be very clear, "magic" exists in StarTrek, too: Q is literal god-level magic. There are telekinetics, empaths, and hiveminds. At least one species has the capacity to mentally create realistic illusions taken from a subject's mind, while others will keep you trapped in your own nightmares for what feels like centuries. Hologram programs are solid and are, multiple times, shown to have the capacity to achieve sapience. In star trek, the magic follows rules. Usually not very well-thought-out, but the feeling that there is an explanation behind any phenomenon is the core conceit of the "exploration" fantasy of Star Trek.
So, saying "in a universe where magic exists" belies the real difference: "in a story where the explanation of phenomena is not a priority, only the spectacle and metaphor of the phenomenon matters."
The giant space lasers are never explained, because their explanation would not suit the desires of the storytellers.
That's just sufficiently advanced technology.
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The millennium falcon is shit even in universe
You came in THAT thing??
The millennium falcon has a fuck ton of modifications made to it that actually make it a good ship. The issue is that it's all slapped together redneck style so it's very unreliable. Han's claim that it's the fastest ship in the galaxy is not actually that far off. It has a Class 0.5 Hyperdrive, which is the fastest hyperdrive in both canon and legends (with a few very obscure and circumstance-dependant exceptions, like the Jabitha and Aing-tii).
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That's just sufficiently advanced technology.
Ah, but unfortunately, the great Lucas, in his infinite, unquestioned wisdom, managed to establish that the force is ALSO simply a sufficiently-advanced evolutionary response to a pre-existing fundamental force of the universe, mediated by whatever the fuck "midichlorians" are supposed to be. You're missing the rest of the quote, which is telling: "sufficiently-advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". The biconditional applies here: "magic is indistinguishable from sufficiently-advanced technology".
You can't draw a line. Just because the random layperson of Tattooine has no explanation for the force, doesn't mean that there isn't one. Just because we're told that there are truths humans can't comprehend which allow the Q to break every law of reality, that doesn't mean that their powers appear or act in any way less-miraculous. The difference is that, in Star Wars, the writing of the science fantasy demands the mysticism (which is why midichlorians are such bullshit), while the science fiction of star trek demands an explicable nature, even if we don't get all of the answers.
Edit: Also, are you trying to argue that literal psychic abilities are somehow technology? They literally give as much explanation for those in star trek as they do the Force in star wars.
E2: Biconditional, not "bidirectional"
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That's just sufficiently advanced technology.
Something, something, midi-chlorians.
There's a lot of hand waving involved, but I feel like they're at least fleshed out more than the wormhole aliens or the Caretakers.
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Enterprise can destroy the ships without even getting in their range
The deathstar destroyed planets light-years away in seconds.
Do you mean Starkiller base? Because the only planet completely destroyed by the Death Star was Alderaan, and it was in orbit around the planet at the time. Hardly light-years away.
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But well, I have only ever seen people asking about the Enterprise against the Death Star or the Enterprise against a destroyer. On both cases the Enterprise can destroy the ships without even getting in their ranges, of course
Not just that, but Star Wars ships are effectively unshielded. The enterprise can just use the transporter to send a primed torpedo to their opponent's bridge, or a tractor beam to rip their hull apart.
The only unshielded ships are TIE fighters because it was cheaper to mass-produce them without them. Pretty much all other ships have shields.
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Who wants to burst the bubbles of Star Wars fans?
The Millennium Falcon could not stand up against any of the Star Trek Hero-ships. None of them. Zero, Zultch, Neoni.
- NX01 Enterprise: Might be a fair match due to lack of proper shields, but the NX01 could still one shot The Falcon.
- USS Discovery (either original or "A"): One Shot, Ship literally is a research vessel repurposed for war. it'll still oneshot The Falcon.
- Enterprise (OG or A): One shot. Not even close.
- Enterprise
Wouldn't even need to oneshot you, will disable your weapons and engines and then bring you in to figure out what the fuck you are. - Defiant: Literally built for war. Won't fuck around, one shot.
- DS9: DS9 can one shot the Falcon, but I think DS9 would be a destination for the Falcon.
- Ceritos: Will shoot the Falcon down, and then someone will go "what the fuck was that".
- Protostar: LITERALLY PILOTED BY FREAKIN' TEENAGERS! Would still body the Falcon.
- La Serena: Closest narratively to the Falcon. Might stand a cha...what am I kidding, bodies it.
- Federation headquarters (32nd Century): Bodies it, wouldn't have to because it's surrounded by ships who alone could Body the Falcon.
In fact, every single ship on this list except for maybe the NX01 wouldn't even need to fire a shot because they could just get a transporter lock, and teleport everyone off the ship and then grab it with a tractor beam. Everyone. Han, Chewie, Luke, Leia, Finn, Poe, Rei, everyone. They can be beamed directly to the Brig to make sure they don't do anything stupid, and whoever the captain is (I'm going for Pike because he's my favourite) can some down and be all "Hey, you were firing at my ship with a peashooter, don't worry, it's unharmed, strange ship, doesn't have Warp or shields or anything. You all seem human except for the big guy there, we don't have your species in our database. Want a drink of something? The replicator can make anything you'd like."
There are other ships in the Star Wars universe
️Edit: I can't even read headlines.
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Something, something, midi-chlorians.
There's a lot of hand waving involved, but I feel like they're at least fleshed out more than the wormhole aliens or the Caretakers.
Those movies didn't happen. La la la I can't hear you.
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Ah, but unfortunately, the great Lucas, in his infinite, unquestioned wisdom, managed to establish that the force is ALSO simply a sufficiently-advanced evolutionary response to a pre-existing fundamental force of the universe, mediated by whatever the fuck "midichlorians" are supposed to be. You're missing the rest of the quote, which is telling: "sufficiently-advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". The biconditional applies here: "magic is indistinguishable from sufficiently-advanced technology".
You can't draw a line. Just because the random layperson of Tattooine has no explanation for the force, doesn't mean that there isn't one. Just because we're told that there are truths humans can't comprehend which allow the Q to break every law of reality, that doesn't mean that their powers appear or act in any way less-miraculous. The difference is that, in Star Wars, the writing of the science fantasy demands the mysticism (which is why midichlorians are such bullshit), while the science fiction of star trek demands an explicable nature, even if we don't get all of the answers.
Edit: Also, are you trying to argue that literal psychic abilities are somehow technology? They literally give as much explanation for those in star trek as they do the Force in star wars.
E2: Biconditional, not "bidirectional"
You just pulled "th bidirectional" out of your ass.
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You just pulled "th bidirectional" out of your ass.
If by "my ass", you mean "the transitive property of equality", then sure. My ass is a turing-complete logical computation engine.
"Indistinguishable" means that, for all tests available, the signal of A = the signal of B.
Or were you asking me to explain what a bidirectional relationship is?
EDIT: AHH, Sorry, Bi-conditional
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The millennium falcon has a fuck ton of modifications made to it that actually make it a good ship. The issue is that it's all slapped together redneck style so it's very unreliable. Han's claim that it's the fastest ship in the galaxy is not actually that far off. It has a Class 0.5 Hyperdrive, which is the fastest hyperdrive in both canon and legends (with a few very obscure and circumstance-dependant exceptions, like the Jabitha and Aing-tii).
Ok. So I guess Leia think it's shit because it looks badly put together
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Who wants to burst the bubbles of Star Wars fans?
The Millennium Falcon could not stand up against any of the Star Trek Hero-ships. None of them. Zero, Zultch, Neoni.
- NX01 Enterprise: Might be a fair match due to lack of proper shields, but the NX01 could still one shot The Falcon.
- USS Discovery (either original or "A"): One Shot, Ship literally is a research vessel repurposed for war. it'll still oneshot The Falcon.
- Enterprise (OG or A): One shot. Not even close.
- Enterprise Wouldn't even need to oneshot you, will disable your weapons and engines and then bring you in to figure out what the fuck you are.
- Defiant: Literally built for war. Won't fuck around, one shot.
- DS9: DS9 can one shot the Falcon, but I think DS9 would be a destination for the Falcon.
- Ceritos: Will shoot the Falcon down, and then someone will go "what the fuck was that".
- Protostar: LITERALLY PILOTED BY FREAKIN' TEENAGERS! Would still body the Falcon.
- La Serena: Closest narratively to the Falcon. Might stand a cha...what am I kidding, bodies it.
- Federation headquarters (32nd Century): Bodies it, wouldn't have to because it's surrounded by ships who alone could Body the Falcon.
In fact, every single ship on this list except for maybe the NX01 wouldn't even need to fire a shot because they could just get a transporter lock, and teleport everyone off the ship and then grab it with a tractor beam. Everyone. Han, Chewie, Luke, Leia, Finn, Poe, Rei, everyone. They can be beamed directly to the Brig to make sure they don't do anything stupid, and whoever the captain is (I'm going for Pike because he's my favourite) can some down and be all "Hey, you were firing at my ship with a peashooter, don't worry, it's unharmed, strange ship, doesn't have Warp or shields or anything. You all seem human except for the big guy there, we don't have your species in our database. Want a drink of something? The replicator can make anything you'd like."
Ugh I guess I'm going to be this type of fan.
I like both universes but the "they will just get a transporter lock and teleport everyone" is an awful argument that shows a very bad lack of understanding of Star Trek.
There are hundreds of examples of transporters not working. Shields which even the tiny falcon does have are a constant example. Even past that there are tons of other cases. They don't work in storms, through thick rock, through unusual armor/metal, around jamming which is used basically universally in Star Wars on anything larger or more expensive than a Tie Fighter.
Those are just the ones off the top of my head and there are at least a dozen more. It is one of the top plot lines used in every series.
In a fight the falcon just runs away since even mid grade Star Wars ships have radically faster FTL.
Now if you ignore the running away yes the tiny falcon probably does lose to most or maybe even all of the Trek hero ships. It is a smuggler ship that can just run past blockades if it gets flagged.
Actual combat ships are far harder to figure out. Star Wars deals with a massively larger scale of ship size, total energy output, and FTL speed. At first glance that seems like an obvious win and in a full galaxy scale conflict probably does go to Star Wars.
But any single ship to ship combat especially with the hero ships the range of gadgets/tricks on the Star Trek side is massively in their favor. The rate they pick up tech charges probably would largely even out the tech difference in a galaxy wide fight as well. However that doesn't solve the scale difference. Maybe convince the Borg to produce ships with stolen FTL and hypermatter reactors so they can produce enough at scale quickly.
Edit - I just realized that while the transporter argument doesn't generally hold water it would totally work on all the cheap Tie Fighter pilots. LOL. That would be so funny to watch.
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There are other ships in the Star Wars universe
️Edit: I can't even read headlines.
Well the question was "Millennium Falcon vs Enterprise".
As for say, any Star Trek Hero ship against a Star Dreadnought like an Assertor Class or Procurator, then it's a challenge. I think in that case, one of the only ships that could stand a chance is maybe the Defiant purely because it's made for the Hit-and-run tactics that those ships are weak against.
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Ok. So I guess Leia think it's shit because it looks badly put together
Aaaand doesn't it constantly require maintenance due to this?
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Well the question was "Millennium Falcon vs Enterprise".
As for say, any Star Trek Hero ship against a Star Dreadnought like an Assertor Class or Procurator, then it's a challenge. I think in that case, one of the only ships that could stand a chance is maybe the Defiant purely because it's made for the Hit-and-run tactics that those ships are weak against.
Ouch missed that!
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Aaaand doesn't it constantly require maintenance due to this?
The millennium falcon is essentially an old Cessna plane crammed full of equipment from a military jet, held together by duct tape, spit, and good vibes. It is constantly breaking down because everything from its armor, to its engines, to its power core was never designed for a ship that size. But when it does work, it punches WAY above its class.
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... but but but he did the Kessel run in 12 parsecs or something maaaaan
